Dan Holen, Principal of Boelter Blue, sits down to have a conversation with Mark Knudsen, CPO (Chief Popping Officer) of Pop’s Kettle Corn. Learn more about the origins of this family-run business, the dedication and creativity of the Pop’s brand and what the future has in store for the Pop’s Kettle Corn Crew.

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Excerpts

Dan Holen: I'm really excited to chat with you because you've got a pretty awesome story. What I'd like to do is start from the beginning and talk about how Pop’s Kettle Corn even started, to where you are today. So, your dad, Pop, of Pop’s Kettle Corn [Richard], started this in his kitchen, as a hobby.

Mark Knudsen: It kind of started as a hobby, but more so as a need. When he was 59, just on the verge of retirement ... they ended up going to automation, which took his position out. For about two years he struggled to find his “something to do” to make ends meet. He always loved kettle corn, so he went outside one day an, did his little walk down a fairground, saw kettle corn being made and then went and actually the next day talked to my mom and was like, "I'm going to start a kettle corn business."

This is a guy that's about to cook popcorn, who also thinks putting hot dogs in the microwave after you stab them with a fork, that's cooking. Needless to say, when the brothers heard about this, and–I was in Norway at the time–I heard about this, I was like, "You're …. okay. We'll just... Let's see where this goes."

This is how Dad kind of did it, but then all of a sudden you've got this recipe and my mom's a German, great cook, loves to cook for all of our boys. They've got two older brothers, so she knows how to make sure things taste very good. Him and her work together on this recipe and started off in 2009 and since then....

Yeah, it's blown up. So he started just experimenting with different flavors, I'm assuming one flavor?

Mark: One flavor. The O.G., the original baby.

So, he made that. Then he was going around, like you said, [to] fairs, farmer's market, festivals?

Mark: Then it was basically finding as many events that you see, right? Nowadays, there's that same amount 10 years ago where he just went to every farmer's market, every event that was a Maxwell Street Days, you know, a lot of things that were more out in the suburbs area, and just nailed it. would pop his tent up and start popping live for whatever he can.

That grew and grew and basically got them into the space of, I think 2013 it was. They started then a store down in Wind Lake so that they can pop year-round. A lot of people liked it, and that actually got my mom into making more of her gourmet style.

When it comes to popcorn, I've gotta be very clear about the different types of popcorn. So the different types of popcorn, there are four different types of main popcorns that we will go with. Everybody thinks "kettle corn," they think that there's cheese in kettle corn. There's no cheese in kettle corn. There's kettle corn, there's cheddar corn, there's gourmet and then there's your movie style, which I call a traditional.

Kettle is going to be your high temperature, three ingredients, kind of like beer. You get your oil, seed, sugar. That's your kettle corn. Then you've got your cheddar corn. Some people do it differently where they pop the corn in cheese and oil and do it. We actually air pop it and then we do our cheese magic to it afterwards. And then you've got the gourmet, small batch stuff made in a small kettle, a copper kettle. Normally you're making  caramel from scratch, turning popcorn in it. And that's what makes that. And then your regular popcorn, stuff that you usually see at ballparks and movie theaters coming out of those machines you just plug and play.

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You were teaching overseas, right? You were in Norway teaching there, in China as well, while your dad was starting this. What motivated you to move back and take it over?

Mark: Facebook. I was telling my dad this is such a great opportunity for him to create these Facebook followings. ... I could manage my dad's business page from anywhere in the world. So, I was like, "Dad, let's do a Facebook group of Pop’s Kettle Corn." And he's like, "I hate it. I don't want to do it at all." I was like, "Okay, sounds good." Did it anyway.

So, I started doing it, and all of a sudden, he started seeing people like it, follow it, comment on how great it was. That started him and his eyes open to like, "Oh my gosh, this is actually kind of a cool process."

They were going to retire in like 2016. They were going to go up to Washington Island, and we announced that on Facebook, and it blew up. People were like, "No, you cannot leave Southeast Wisconsin. That's ridiculous."

I was a teacher and I'd take a year off and see how this whole thing goes. Came here, started doing it and then, the snowball started. The rest is history.

Social media obviously played a really big game. Do you have any tips for anybody who's running a business right now? Some things that you'd recommend if they're just starting, they just created their Facebook page? How do you start getting those followers? How did you start reaching out to these people?

Mark: Good question on that one. It's undying promotion for yourself. You just have to always think of it. You should be on, if you're a business owner, your business’s Facebook more than you should be on your own. Don't get me wrong. It's great that you have something on your personal, but your business is at the forefront, especially for any business owner who's just starting off. You have three years of treachery ahead of you. It is a lot of time and effort towards that one little baby.

When it comes to that, I think our success really started going because I did these random, hold your phone up, take pictures or take a video of where you are and then posting that. People started, I think, seeing the person behind the kettle … and seeing the effort that people put in towards their businesses and that's what makes it that experience.

I tell everybody, if your business is not an experience, you're doing something wrong. Every time that somebody walks into your store, has your product, takes it out, that should be an experience, and it should be a joyful one. And popcorn, it's fun.

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Going back to the recipe... So your dad had the original. Now how many do you guys have?

Mark: We've got a lot. People always ask this. I usually say we've got about 70 flavors and mixes altogether. And the reason why I say mix is because we're doing some events, like the mac and cheese coming up with iHeartmedia. That's going to be pretty cool. We've also got Bacon Fest. We've got all these different festivals that we try and cater a new recipe to.

For example, we have our Dragon's Breath. And Dragon's Breath is this really spicy popcorn. But State Fair, the first year we were sitting there giving it to a bunch of people and the hotheads couldn't... they were like, "Well, it's not that hot." I was like, "You guys... Challenge accepted, come back next year." So, they came back next year, and we did the Devil’s Cheddar. The Devil's Cheddar is just stupid hot. That's something you really only need one kernel of. It's quite funny when people are like, "Nah, I can handle hot." You're like, "Great. Try this."

When you're going by a popcorn stand, always ask for a specific popcorn. Don't just put your hand out. Because if you put your hand out at State Fair, and you don't say anything, you're getting the Devil's Cheddar, and you're not going to like it. ... It's entertaining for the person that's giving it. It's maybe a teachable moment for the person taking it.

Anyway, yes, we have those 70-some-odd flavors of mixes. We get new ones all the time. People come in and suggest. We have one, it's called Sweet Corn. Awesome mix. It's our O.G. kettle and our coconut oil sea salt. Just awesome. It's a great corn, low-calorie style because it's only coconut oil sea salt with the O.G., which is not low cal.

I'm sure you're biased, but do you have a favorite flavor? 

Mark: I do have a favorite. It's the puppy chow. It's our chocolate kettle corn. And then it's the peanut butter chocolate protein powder turned over that, dusted with powdered sugar.

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You've partnered up with some local places, too. You partnered up with Soul Boxer to make your brandy old fashioned corn, and you've partnered up with a couple other breweries too, right? To do some different flavor profiles?

Mark: I think one of my favorites is ... The story behind the Soul Boxer is Jason knew the co-founder of Soul Boxer. Great guy. Actually, his younger brother's one of my best friends. Came in and asked, "Hey, we want to give all the distributors that started picking us up a gift." So, they ended up giving them the gift of popcorn and asked us to try and create this brandy old fashioned.

You give this to my mom now. And you have to understand, my mom is this mad scientist behind this entire operation when it comes to a flavor. Like, we dissect it. She takes bitters, brandy, pours it in. We make a gourmet caramel with it, touch it off with the Soul Boxer at the end. And it's got this awesome cherry orange finish. We loved it, they loved it.

And I was like, "Jason, it's turned out really well. Can we keep doing this one all the time? Can we use your label?" And I have it in email, Jason: you said yes. So, we still use it. It's one of those spots of, you partner up with somebody local like that ,and you continue to promote each other. We co-promote all the time.

You've been all hands-on deck since you came back from Norway and China for about three years now, right? So in about three years, you went from your small place in Wind Lake to now your destination location here in Muskego. Now you're even serving in Major League Baseball stadiums. That is a huge jump. Do you have any tips for anybody who is a business owner or looking to start? Do you have a secret sauce or anything crazy to take yourself from A to B and do it so quickly?

Mark: That's a loaded one, man. I'd say just get comfortable with being annoying. Annoyingly persistent can really get you at least a yes or no. Because the worst thing, I think, with businesses and business owners is you're in the flux. When you're in the air and there's no defined role where you can go, you don't necessarily know where to put your time. So if you're annoyingly persistent, you can really get that yes or no.

I still remember talking to the Brewers the first time. I think they were just looking for a quote. I got a random phone call one day and they were asking for a quote, gave him a quote and it was way high. I didn't really know how to price things out at that time. Just continued to have that conversation over and over again every year. And then finally, last year they took us on. We had to do what we could to make sure that our corn gets in, and now we're looking for a future with them. It'll be a good time.

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Pop’s is pretty much everywhere now. You guys do a lot of fundraising opportunities. You work with kids who want to raise money for baseball jerseys or something like that, right? And then you also do a lot of wholesale stuff, and then you also pop live at all these events, and you have your store and you have your online eCommerce site. How do you wrap your arms around this?

Mark: I'm a big guy, I got big arms. When it comes to being a business, you have to, yes, hang your hat on certain things. We really hang our hat on live events. Live events for us are what Pop’s started with. It's where we always have been. But in Wisconsin, we get like three months of live events. ... It's a packed three months, but we just look for more and more opportunities to do live events.

Johnsonville had a party at a Miller Park and we did popcorn for their community, for their people. That was really cool. We work with those kinds of businesses. I think we worked with GE as well, went and popped in Whitnall. That's really fun for us. Live events are exciting for us. We get to pop live and have fun with it.

Wholesale continued to grow. We only take on wholesalers who are very serious about also promoting us. We can't just put something on the shelf. Our cheddars, they last four or five weeks. They've got to move. We need somebody who's also a good partner.

Total Wine has been a great partner. Delafield Albrecht's, they’re fantastic. We're talking family owned businesses, too. Total Wine. A lot of people might say they're not, but they are locally owned. They are a chain around all of the U.S., but I know the GM. We talked and then they brought us in. We look for opportunities with wholesalers that really want to help promote us. Again, it's cross-promotion. We'll promote them as well.

You do corporate gifts, too. If a business, let's say their colors are blue and orange, you can take those colors and make that into a kettle corn and create a flavor around that as a promotional thing.

Mark: Yeah. One of my buddies, he just texted me the other day, Cody from up in Minnesota and we played football together, but we've been doing Apex Systems. We have the Apex Mix. They actually helped us create that first mix, and they just contacted me about something for Valentine's day.

People that are heavy when it comes to visiting customers, walking in doors, you want to come with a gift. For us to be able to customize it, because we can do that customized label which basically acts like a business card, now they're getting some great corn, which is cross-promotion for us. People are also putting their name in front of a lot of others, and they're tying those two things together. That's a big part, not only for us as a business, but for them as a business. I remember when you came in for Valentine's Day, the "thank you economy"? That whole spot is what we really can help with, because your best customer is the customer that's repeating.

Fundraisers is a big one too. We've been starting to find fundraisers. There are a lot of different people out there. You look at where you can utilize it. Popcorn's a consumable, and it's one of those spots, that we're locally owned. We're turning right now–actually we just went into Illinois–we're turning about 43% plus revenue back to the fundraiser. I think they had about 25 people sell, but they ended up raising close to about $950, for 25 people's sales within about one and a half weeks of sale time. If you are out there and you're looking for a fundraiser we're starting to get it down to a T, and we continue to learn every time. We can definitely help out with fundraising opportunities

One of our local schools here, at Lakeview Elementary, they ended up doing one and they blew it out of the water. I think they ended up getting, oh man, it was close to like $2,000 or $3,000 straight back. They ended up selling more, where they ended up towards 47%, which was awesome. It's a locally owned, like I said, and it's promoting us, but people that are going out and buying it, you're not just buying random popcorn, let's say. You know the quality. That love goes into everything that we do.

What's the future of Pop's? What can people expect?

Mark: The future's endless. I think that we're just scratching the surface with where we're currently at. There's so many opportunities for us to continue on our same path. Quality is the future. It will always be our staple. But it's now just reaching out to more and more venues. That's where it comes to being very creative.

Something that's coming up here is our season of farmer's markets and events. We can't get to every single one of these. I can't hire people to get to every single one of these. We actually are starting to think outside the box of hiring servers that are going to go out. We can pay them a base salary, but they also get a commission.

If you're listening and you're looking for a farmer's market or something like that, or you have a bunch of events, we have the product and we have the capability of loading you up, having you go out and raise a couple extra bucks on your own. If you're saving up for that new roof or something (everybody's saving up for something), we have an opportunity for you. Consistency is key, but smiles most. You gotta be joyful. You gotta love our corn. Know how to promote it.

You got any crazy flavors coming out in the future? 

Mark: If I tell you, I'd have to kill you. I've got probably five new ones this year that I've thought of that are in the chamber ready to roll, but we'll roll them out slowly. Yes. Some of them are actually just mixes as well. Some of our corn is just going really well together. We have Tompkins jerk seasoning. That one's great. ... We're going to do that one on the yellow [cheddar], with a little kick of jalapeno. Really nice. Working with chefs like that will be fun.

Where can people find you if they want to buy your corn or come see you?

Mark: Muskego is our spot. You want every single flavor that we're talking about, you're going to have to come to Muskego for it. But if you can't, get our key flavors [at] Total Wine and Albrecht's. We've got Daybreak that is out in Delafield as well. It's a mobile station.

Online stores. We get a lot of orders online that are starting to go out of state. People are coming in and got it for a gift, things like that.

If there are any places out there that you are thinking–like I want to do Karl's Market out in the Mequon area; that's a really great space–we're always looking for new wholesalers that all take us on so that they're getting a little closer to you. We get a lot of recommendations for it. Just depends on if it can get out there, and cost-wise and everything else.

Do you really want to know what Pop's is doing all the time? I'm getting a little bit more creative when it comes to the emails. We're not going to blast you with stuff. I usually actually throw in a coupon code just because if you got to read my stuff, you may as well get paid for it if you come in. If you go up and you start signing on by email, we can start blasting that out there. Popcorn of the month is coming up.

We're also, for Valentine's day even, specific boxes. We're pairing with local arts and crafts persons. You ever hear of upcycling? Awesome thing. Basically, it's not recycling products, it's upcycling them to the sense of... You're taking all of these different license place, tins, and you're making cool things out of them. We are pairing up with Tara and Pony who make these amazingly beautiful earrings for Valentine's Day, so you can actually send a box of popcorn, the earrings, as well as a couple other things. There'd be a couple of different options, but that'll be something that you can send. And we're limiting those. We're only going to do 25 or so of them. But we're going to start pairing with local arts and crafts vendors to give a little bit more of that gift feel. But it's something tangible, something edible.

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What's the best compliment a customer ever gave you?

Mark: Oh, that's a loaded one. I think it's just the compliment of, they really enjoy being here and supporting local. When I hear that people really enjoy supporting local, it makes me feel that we're doing something right in the sense of not only the product, but also the price point as well as their experience. And those are some of the biggest things that a repeat customer or anybody can ever tell us.

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The Boelter Wire is an episodic podcast that focuses on thought-leadership conversations with industry experts and established partners, and is designed to help listeners evolve their business, stay competitive and pursue their passions.

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